The top euro sides generally need one elite goal scorer in the side, who is good for 20-30 goals a season. Obviously there are not many of those players so the alternative is to share the goals out. e.g City in the season before Haaland Arsenal haven't had a 20+ goals per season striker since Auba left, so they are kind of dependant on the front 5 chipping in ... eg Odegaard is good for 10-15 from midfield I think Havertz is a bit of a hybrid like Wirtz - might be good for 15+ goals per season but i don't think he will ever be 20+
The problem for hybrid players like Havertz (who is a very unique hybrid) is that many people, especially fans, are stuck in the old ways. Unique hybrid players require different systems to utilise them, e.g., the false 9 system, any other system without an elite striker or traditional striker. These systems have worked many times, but the second it doesn't work in a particular game you get lots of people screaming to the high heavens that the system doesn't work and a traditional role player is required. This usually results in the hybrid player being left out in the cold or misused. This is happening right now with Havertz. There are still fans claiming they need an elite striker. Despite the fact that: 1: Arsenal are the highest scorers in the league with 82 goals. 2: Havertz has the highest 'goal creating action per 90' in the EPL in 2024 by some distance. 3: Havertz is in double figures in the EPL for goals scored despite only played as forward for 15 games. People who do not like alternative systems or alternative hybrid players look for any excuse or any bad result to justify abandonment and switching back.
I hear what you say , and with players like Sane, Wirtz and Musiala, they can really trouble some defenses. really Hope Musiala finally scores an NT goal. Also its good to have Havertz in the team but also good to have Fulkrug - he might not be one of the top 10 strikers out there but he can score goals.
Havertz has yet to deliver in NT at CF position.....too often goes MIA. And we played Havertz+Muller at CF in last tourney aka WC22 and it was a HUGE fail. its nice that he's doing well at Arsenal but that hasn't translated much to NT as of now.
Julian Nagelsmann on Aleks Pavlović: "He is a candidate who can maybe still jump on the train for the Euros. My contract extension puts him even more in focus because we want to build prospects for the World Cup" [@MagentaTV] pic.twitter.com/TcP97gZ5cl— Bayern & Germany (@iMiaSanMia) April 25, 2024 now that he's extended until WC26, now has to think about future, LOL.
Musiala has scored twice for NT but we need him to unlock Ds. what I find troublesome is how little we've scored in tourneys. Next Up Euros, where our scoring track record is pretty low. Muller has 0 Euro Goals Sane has 0 Euro Goals Gnabry has 0 Euro Goals Brandt has 0 Euro Goals Hofmann has 0 Euro Goals Havertz has 2 Euro Goals but not as CF historically we are very low scorers in Euro. German Leading Scorers in Euro=Gomez+Klinsmann tied at 5 goals. Gomez could have taken record had he not missed France SF game. thing is this, what Euro Rival has a top 10 CF? -France with Giroud who is gonna end his NT this Summer as hes moving to MLS and he's 38 y/o too. Post Euro they will need to find replacement as of now none of the others have looked amazing in NT. -Pengland with Hawwy Kane and that's it. The rest of so called top 10 play for smaller countries. I don't see us in bad place compared to other Nations on that front.
If Davie Selke had been selected in previous Euros he would have scored at least 10 goals by now. Dumb coaches ignoring the greatest German striking talent, (other then Sandro Wagner ) Seriously though, I feel like we have goals in our squad, provided we don't build up so slowly and overcrowd attacking areas. And when that failed hit a ton of aimless crosses. A lot of our attacking play was very predictable under Low and Flick.
100% - there aren’t that many top strikers so Fulkrug is as good as they get . i Mean last Euros Schick played well and scored a few , for sure he is not bad , but Fulkrug is one the same level . I have seen you don’t ha e to have a top striker at a tourney as long as you have a half decent one it works
You know that’s always our issues against smaller teams the over crowding . We do well against stronger nations where the game flows more . I think Ukraine and Greece will be good tests . Hopefully we won’t be disappointed
LOL, Schick in 1 Euro scored as many as Gomez+Klinsmann where both played 3 tourneys. thanks for confirming how low scorers we are in Euros. but yeah you just need one who can put the ball in the net and Fullkrug has shown that, even scoring vs Spain when nobody could finish. my worry about Havertz at CF for NT is that he's mostly predictable and not hard to mark. Too many games was taken out of the match. You also need someone who imposes himself on Ds, I have yet to see him do that in NT, he comes off having 0 presence.....
1960: François Heutte (France), Viktor Ponedelnik (USSR), Valentin Ivanov (USSR), Dražan Jerković (Yugoslavia), Milan Galić (Yugoslavia) – 2 goals 1964: Jesús María Pereda (Spain), Ferenc Bene (Hungary), Deszö Novák (Hungary) – 2 goals 1968: Dragan Džajić (Yugoslavia) – 2 goals 1972: Gerd Müller (West Germany) – 4 goals 1976: Dieter Müller (West Germany) – 4 goals 1980: Klaus Allofs (West Germany) – 3 goals 1984: Michel Platini (France) – 9 goals 1988: Marco van Basten (Netherlands) – 5 goals 1992: Henrik Larsen (Denmark), Karl-Heinz Riedle (Germany), Dennis Bergkamp (Netherlands), Tomas Brolin (Sweden) – 3 goals 1996: Alan Shearer (England) – 5 goals 2000: Patrick Kluivert (Netherlands), Savo Milošević (Yugoslavia) – 5 goals 2004: Milan Baroš (Czech Republic) – 5 goals 2008: David Villa (Spain) – 4 goals 2012: Fernando Torres (Spain)*, Alan Dzagoev (Russia), Mario Gomez (Germany), Mario Mandžukić (Croatia), Mario Balotelli (Italy), Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal) – 3 goals 2016: Antoine Griezmann (France) – 6 goals 2020: Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal)**, Patrik Schick (Czechia) – 5 goals
So good example, Klose as a striker was never rated as one of the worlds top strikers- but he was extremely consistent for the German NT . He has given Germany an edge , although not being a world super star....but I hope Fulkrug can do the same for us these euros - basically if Fulle can score 4 goals would be wunderbar. As said really hope Musiala and Wirtz really shine these Euros -like where their Stars are finally lightening up the skies
IMO his record in '21 and '22 was decent Last year was garbage but the team was also dire and the big problem for years now has been the defence. IMO having Havertz & Fullkrug as our two options remains pretty decent, given the attacking potency of Wirtz, Sane and Musiala But if they foundation of the team is garbage, they will struggle.
Players change, grow, adapt, and improve (or even regress) with time. I think Havertz has grown in the role. He cannot have the highest 'goal creating action per 90' in the league if he is easy to mark. I have watched him at every opportunity for Arsenal and he is the very opposite of easy to mark. I think that this is a different player than at the last Euro's and WC. (Although why people bring up WC22 in any legitimate discussion about football is beyond me, as what really went on there was beyond obvious) Might Fullkrug or even Undav prove the better option? Yes! But Kai's broad skill set means he can bring a lot more to the table than a simple striker.
we got the top 10 CFs in Europe but we call up bums like Havertz, Fullkrug and Undav instead. top 10 CFs in Europe 1-Selke 2-Big Phil 3-Lasogga 4-Thy 5-Glatzel 6-Polter 7-Tigges 8-Pfeiffer 9-Seydel 10-Behrens
sadly Klose was not scoring much in Euros, 3 goals in 3 tourneys.....better than Muller there but if he was more effective maybe we would have won a Euro. Master of WC though. Musiala+Wirtz need to show us something at this Euro, its time for it. They aren't young anymore but do hope that we aren't too reliant on them. I think Kroos return is looking like biggest boost to NT tbh as corner/FKs/his D destroying balls and also because he forced Kimmich OUT of M, which is now allowing the M to stabilize.
Arsenal isn't the NT, he's yet to show much at NT. If he was so amazing at CF, why did Nagelsmann this season play him LB for like 2 matches........ why wouldn't we bring up WC22 when it was most recent tourney and embarrassment. We have been knocked out of GS in 2/3 of past tourney and 3/3 couldn't even get to QF. There is reason why DFB have GS exit clause to axe Nagelsmann too. A LOT of pressure especially as we are hosting. Also relevant as said player played CF and was ineffective and useless in that tourney. Even if you want to blame M and D, the A was also very bad too. also look at Sane, Gnabry etc so many of our players look better in non-NT tourneys too. That is an issue.
Havertz makes it 3-0 For Arsenal. Credit where it's due, Havertz been very sharp. Concerning for Werner, he limped off with what looked like a hamstring injury. Not good.
I’m sorry but time in NT should be over. Would not take him even as bench options . , Werner is not good enough. Havertz, Füllkrug, are the best NT CF players . Then you take Undav, Beier,Führich as backup for Sane. Usually I would have Havertz are first choice CF. Yes I think he can go up a level at Dortmund . But Füllkrug is elite for thr NT what NT have needed for years. H is an outlet for NT creative players. Now we have an end point for all their clever play. Füllkrug is not just a big lump up front mind you- he’s extremely clever and plays with finesse. Mario Gomez 2.0
the lure of Werner is his super speed. who in the even has that super speed? Njinmah (injured), Adeyemi, Werner (looks injured today), Schade (only recently back from long term injury, too late for Euro) don't think any of the players you mentioned are as fast or direct. The perfect time for fast players is off the bench. but its also why we are rubbish in counters as most players can't even perform counters they also seem to want to get rid of the ball and pass it around instead of going full on.