I'd have to go back and look, but I think Kovacs has been with other VARs, regardless. Zwayer seems somewhat nailed on for the Conference League Final. Unless there is a Kovacs issue AND Leverkusen loses (and both of those things being true seems unlikely). Letexier is 34. And he had the Super Cup this season already. I know this has been discussed before, but has anyone had the Super Cup and another cup in the same season? I think the answer is no. I think, at least at the moment, UEFA treats things as four distinct cups needing four different referees. Regardless, my point here would be that he has all the time in the world. Plus Turpin is still ahead of him. Or, if he's not ahead of him completely, he hasn't been put out to pasture. It would be quite strange to see Letexier to get two cup finals in a season as France's #2 while an established #1 with a UCL Final under his belt only works a single UEL QF. I just don't see it. But PSG and Marseille both advancing admittedly complicate Turpin's path. A match like Villa-Olympiacos--particularly the Greek leg of that tie--is going to be incredibly challenging. Maybe you put Turpin there. Given what he's done and could likely do at EURO, I don't think anyone except some short-sighted referee nerds would view that as an insult.
So someone needs to help me decipher 4:40 onward: There's no call on the field. VAR then calls Marciniak over after play is stopped for a Roma foul outside the penalty area. And he only looks at the attacking handball as a still frame. And then uses that to say it's a DFK coming out for Roma instead of an attacking Milan DFK (for the foul that later occurred and for which he stopped play). The only way this makes some sense is if the VAR deemed the Smalling handball a clear penalty and then the Giroud handball a clear punishable attacking handball in the APP. But, if that's the case, doesn't Marciniak need to watch the whole video? He didn't confirm that he believes there was a missed penalty because he never saw it. And he didn't really even confirm that he saw an attacking handball that was punishable because it was just a still frame. I want to side with the best referee in the world here, and it was efficient and authorative. But I'm struggling the more I think about it. This isn't what VAR is supposed to do. He turned a valid attacking free kick for Milan into a defensive free kick for Roma on at least two assumptions/suggestions that he never bothers to confirm. If he doens't think Smalling committed a punishable penalty (and I think that is very doubtful) then there should be no intervention and no change. What am I missing?
It depends upon what was said, but at this level do you really need to always confirm VAR? Marciniak knows his crew is top level. This call is fairly black and white. If his crew calls down and says, "There was clear handling on both Giroud and Smalling but Giroud handled first so there should be a DFK heading out." What is he going to review? If they say it's clear, is he going to doubt them? He could have sold it better, but I have no issue with this. If they had any doubt, they would say, "Look at it again, we think ..." and he would have had a longer look. But if they're expressing their confidence, not much for him to review.
A) What do you mean "this level?" VAR is at the professional and international level. You're suggesting there are places to authomatically trust VAR and places not to? B) Actually, yeah, that's kind of the point here. The referee always makes the decision. That's why this is worth discussing. Okay. As if other elite UEFA referees think their crew is second-tier or third-rate. How? You think the Smalling handball is a 100% nailed-on penalty with no discussion? I mean, it's really not. And even if it was, Marciniak didn't see it or call it at all initially, which very much undermines that claim. Also, all he sees is a still photo of Giroud and point of contact, not even the actual handball act. That fact alone is bizarre; since when do we judge handballs without any context other than point of contact? All of it. Like what happens with every other OFR. Again, yes. Otherwise, what's the point of the entire VAR system as it is currently constituted. If it was just about trusting the VAR, why even have OFR's. I probably shouldn't be, but I'm baffled by your response here. Ironically, even this assessment is incorrect. He actually couldn't have sold it any better, which is kind of the point. It was incredibly efficient and authorative and he communicated ahead of time to the technical area to make it clear to them what he was doing. The problem isn't the salesmanship. It's the veracity of the overall decision and the fairness of the result. When exactly do think VARs are sending down clear and obvious errors but not expressing confidence? I'm sorry, but almost every point in this response is made up out of thin air or emanates from a complete ignorance (or reluctance to learn) how VAR actually works.
Oh, that call? It wasn’t even a wrong decision, actually a correct and very brave one. I was expecting something shocking… not this. What a stupid policy. Totally unfair on Makkelie.
Jesus Christ. Once he sees that Giroud handled, it's a DFK going out, and unless you think it was somehow misconduct, the Smalling handling doesn't matter as it happened after the foul. Here's what he reviewed. He sees that Giroud handled and that the ball was not above the magic line, that's all he needs. Why would he waste time reviewing what Smalling did when he already has a foul coming out?
Selling a decision is an interesting side-effect of the VAR introduction. If a referee stands in front of that screen too long, it looks poor because it can never be clear and obvious. Marciniak just looked at a frozen frame. That doesn't look good either, too hasty and no context. Somewhere in the middle is best, I guess
And what of the actual review of the Smalling handling? Do you know what the UEFA instructions are on that? Because with the nonsense above aside, the main point here is that nothing is supposed to happen unless Smalling actually committed a penalty. Marciniak never made an assessment about whether that happened or not. Particularly given the prior trouble Marciniak got in with handball this season, it's pretty shocking to me he never bothered to look at that. If he has "no penalty" then everything should remain as a DFK to Milan.
Because there's only something to review if a clear and obvious penalty was committed. I don't understand how you come in here pretty much daily since 2016 and can't absorb some of the basics of VAR by now. Or, if you can't, fine. But speaking and writing about them with authority is nuts to me. You can't review an attacking handball unless it was in the build up to a goal or a penalty. Marciniak never called a penalty. He never reviewed the penalty incident. That's the point here.
Hmm the announcement of the EURO 2024 list of referees can’t take that much longer. Has to be next Monday or Tuesday… The EURO 2020 list was announced on April 21.
My EURO-squad prediction based on 18+1. Locked names (12): Taylor, Oliver, Zwayer, Turpin, Letexier, Marciniak, Makkelie, Orsato, Vincic, Kovacs, Nyberg, CONMEBOL ref I can’t see missing Gil Manzano the Euro as well. Recently he was assigned in Conference League, but still he worked with Italian teams, so I guess Rosetti still trust him - rather a matter of protecting him (after the negative media attention) than a punishment. Sanchez Martinez looked very poor in his last games tbh. Could that potentially cost him the Euro ticket? If he was from a small country, I’d say Yes, however with Carballo in the Refcom backing him, I doubt it. There surely will be an Italian #2 in the Euro squad (Massa / Guida). Schärer belonged to the very trusted referees before his injury and he had a good display in 2024. Gözübüyük, I’m not a big fan of him, however he works with Kuipers’ AR and VAR… Soares Dias didn’t have a great UEFA-season so far, but still a very experienced name and coming from a Top-6 country, he must be in (right). Leaning in (6): Gil Manzano, Schärer, Gözübüyük, Soares Dias, Italian #2 (Massa?), Sanchez Martinez (?) Then, there are 2 spots left for: Eskas / Jovanovic / Peljto / Kruzliak / German #2. Jovanovic and Peljto have struggled in 2024. Kruzliak for some reason never really trusted. Kruzliak and Peljto can be useful in some games (law enforcer). Eskas could be a 4th. But very difficult to make a final choice here. I wouldn’t mind it to see a German #2 either. Finally, I can see UEFA extend the EURO squad to 19+1, to add Frappart for obvious (PR) reasons… It’s suspicious she’s not attending the Olympics indeed.
If you're assuming 18+1 and you've got 18 names... isn't there only 1 spot left in your mapping? For what it's worth, I think it's hard to quibble on your first 18 names, though I just hold out hope that Sanchez Martinez doesn't go. I don't think he's good enough and, in fact, I think he could negatively affect a match. So I'd take you first 17 names and then add in Eskas and... ???? I think that last name is such a question mark that it might just default to a second German. But it truly could be any of those names. For what it's worth on Frappart, I read a good point elsewhere. How can UEFA justify giving her a whistle at EUROs when they can't even give her a KO UCL match. Or an EL KO match. Or an ECL KO match? I mean, there are names like Krogh, Jorgji and Pawson that got KO matches this season and they aren't even in a top 50 of names to consider. When FIFA plucks a female referee to use at its competition, it can at least plausibly argue that they are elevating a woman that a particular confederation is ignoring. What's UEFA's justification? How do you put a woman on your biggest international tournament when you can't even see fit to give her a single knockout match across your top three male club competitions that season? The more I think about it, the more I think I believe that Frappart is just getting the summer off. I would imagine Olofsson goes as a reserve.
I'm curious about who is the German #2 at the moment. I almost want that referee to get a spot so we know if UEFA currently has Siebert or Stieler higher at the moment (or someone else). I'd be surprised to see Eskas left out. One thing to note that hasn't been mentioned yet is that UEFA is sending a referee to Copa America as part of the referee exchange too, right? Last time Gil Manzano went, as Spain's #3 at the time, without attending the EURO. I think we could expect Soares Dias or Sanchez Martinez to make the trip this time. Or, maybe UEFA uses this as a solution to the France Problem... Finally, I still highly suspect a woman - whether that's Frappart or Olofsson - to get a whistle at this tournament. Other confederations are doing it; UEFA won't want to look like they're "behind" Africa and Asia (and probably North America) in this respect. I completely agree with @MassachusettsRef that it wouldn't be a fair or justified appointment, but I doubt UEFA cares. Whether or not it happens will say a lot about where their priorities are. Olofsson might get the nod ahead of Frappart because there are already two Frenchman on the list who can't really be left out, unless one of them goes to Copa America instead.
Maybe you just solved the Sanchez Martinez problem! I don't think Soares Dias would appreciate the appointment, but I could be wrong. And I also don't think UEFA wants to ship Letexier off right now when he's just been so good. Truly, it could be Spain again. Another possibility is Italy, right? No one is shining from Italy as the #2 yet. It's highly unlikely Italy's #2 could get a KO match. But sending Orsato's understudy to Copa isn't an insult, either. I think almost anything is possible so it's just a guess, but sending Guida or Massa to Copa makes a ton of sense the more I think about it--particularly because like in 2021 with Spain, you could send Italy's #3 and get away with it. I'm trying to decide if I think this is a good point or an irrelevant one and I just can't come down either way. It's certainly a good observation. On the one hand, yes, you very well might be right. UEFA not checking this milestone off doesn't look good when Africa and Asia are leading. And Penso is going to Gold Cup (or Copa!) so that box will get checked, too. But on the other hand, does UEFA really care what Africa and Asia do here? Think of all these considerations: a European female referee has already done a World Cup match, so UEFA gets that. UEFA also has already given a female referee a male cup final (Super Cup). UEFA has also already had its female referees officiate male club competitions (including a KO match, I think--just not this year). And UEFA was, I believe, the first confederation to put a woman on a male WCQ. So in all those regards, UEFA has already led the way here. Truly, who cares if they check this particular box at this particular edition of EURO? And then, in addition to the merit question, there's the simple match quality/tournament attention question. Yamashita reffed Austraila-India. Karboubi did a close to meaningless Guinea-Bissau-Nigeria match. Look at the EURO schedule and point out the match where you think you can "hide" Frappart, so to speak. It's not there, unless some group is decided on MD 3 and a 6-point team is playing a 0-point team (or two eliminated teams are facing off, which is really challenging to get in a "best third place advance" tournament). Best laid plans and all, but maybe Albania is on 0 points and Spain has 6 (watch Albania steal points early)--that's probably your best hope. Or England-Slovenia in the same scenario (which seems like the best landing spot, actually). I don't think there's any other possible match that could be deemed easy. Of course, with that said, Frappart survived/did well in a tough scenario WC match in Qatar. So it's not like it's insane. But what's the risk-reward calculation here? You get, what, exactly, by giving her or Olofsson a match? A 24-hour positive press cycle that won't be as intense as previous such press cycles you've already got for her. And the risk is obvious, particularly when as an organization you've done literally nothing to prepare her for such a match. I mean, if she blows Hungary-Scotland and one team is wrongly eliminated, a lot of questions are going to be asked about why a referee who wasn't good enough to officiate a single KO game across three UEFA competitions was selected for such an ocassion. And the answer isn't a good one.
I'd also add that Rizzoli is in charge of CONCACAF which means he has a role at Copa. Massa/Guida to Copa is starting to grow on me...
Yep. We'll see what UEFA chooses to do. Also a good point. I initially suggested the Portuguese and Spanish referees because they would fit in better in a CONMEBOL setting, but I half-forgot that Copa America is combined confederations this year. An Italian would make a lot of sense. I guess the question in that case would be, does Copa get Italy's #2 while number #3 stays home, or do the top 2 go to EURO and the #3 (or, I guess, 2b) goes to Copa. Maybe it'll just be Rizzoli's preference.
I thought Pinheiro (POR) and Mariani (ITA) are the ones to be selected for CONMEBOL. They were invited during the winter seminar. Yes, I wrote 18+1 and just 18 names (already included CONMEBOL). That makes the odds for a German #2 a bit higher. Stieler has better appointments than Siebert, had a decent game in Turkey last week which could give him the benefit of a doubt when other candidates are struggling. Coming from a top-5 country, I’m sure he will be respected. Eskas is appreciated too, very different personality compared to Kruzliak/Peljto. More a managing referee I’d say with excellent soft skills. It depends on UEFA’s preferences. The Norwegian was promoted only this year, but already a FIFA final under his belt and he’s promising. At 35 years old, it would make sense to give him the Kovacs 2020 treatment. 1-2 games to gain experience. Or just being a 4O… Got to think that UEFA has to make a political choice between Balkan referees Jovanovic and Peljto. Jovanovic has more experience, but the way he’s appointed should mean he’s out. I think Kruzliak is slightly ahead of both now, but he looked poor in his QF. For all of them is 1-2 GS games the ceiling and that makes it so difficult to make a choice. 18+1 is still a lot though, I remember that Kovacs had just one game at EURO 2020. Imagine it would be 19+1. If a female referee is invited, I still think it’s Frappart based on experience, but I agree it’s a “repetition of moves”. We haven’t seen Olofsson yet in a male competition game.
I forgot him! Surely a candidate, with 37 years old, Turkey is a strong nation and he has the sympathy vote indeed. If I had to predict now, we won’t see a second German. Stieler and Siebert didn’t have important observers recently. Jovanovic out. Eskas feels like a coin flip. He could be in or 4O. His UCL game was death rubber. I wonder if we can see both Kruzliak and Peljto. For me they are similar in some way. Btw, I agree with you and hope that Sanchez is out too.
And I forgot this. It would make sense. Though the nature of this competition makes two UEFA referees quite a stretch, don't you think? In 2021 it was 20 group stage matches and 10 referees other than Gil Manzano. Okay, he gets added in to that group to add a little imbalance and prevent the 2-per-referee assigning, but it's marginal. This time there are 24 group matches. You almost certainly still need to bring a referee from each of the CONMEBOL countries, as is custom. And the USA and Mexico, at minimum. Then surely at least one of Barton/Escobar/Martinez. And probably Fischer, at this point? All of a sudden you're at 14 host referees and I think that might be low (e.g., it means only one of Claus or Sampaio). Can you really layer in two UEFA referees for this tournament when you're putting 1 CONMEBOL referee in a 36-match group stage tournament? It doesn't seem like it works or would be very well-received. A World Cup referee from Brazil stays home from Copa while Italy's #4 (and another European!) goes? I don't buy that... Of course, predicting the Copa referees might just be a trickier exercise generally. Though knowing the final total of selected referees would help immensely with that task. Copa 2016 was 20 referees, for what it's worth.
Youth League Final. Sharing not for the decision, but for the commentary. "Nothing he can do." https://www.streambug.io/cv/89e983
So, a WC referee (probably Sampaio) is attending EURO and UEFA is sending their #4 Italian to CONMEBOL? Oh well… Interesting. Other rumors: German magazine expects UEFA to announce the EURO referees tomorrow. The other rumor is Wednesday. In any case, it won’t take long. And finally, Roberto Rosetti is observing a referee in the 1st tie in München (April 30). I don’t know who reported Orsato, Marciniak, Makkelie and Vincic in the CL semi-finales, however I can’t see Rosetti observing a very experienced referee, unless someone needs a hug (@mikael probably knows what I’m talking about ). My first thought was Letexier, for obvious reasons. Reward after a great season, French teams everywhere, blah blah. Add the fact this is a first tie and played before PSG’s game. One other name could be Oliver, which was the name already predicted by Massref. Or Vincic, but I’m not sure we would see him with Rosetti.