The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No idea about Ireland, but Welsh channel S4C shows games from the Welsh League, with commentary in Welsh, not that the Welsh League is massively popular with or without games from the English leagues being shown.
     
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  2. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    If it's the Premier League punishing them, all they can do is dock points, give fines, and prevent player registrations. They can't push the club down multiple divisions.

    If they were forcibly relegated due to a points deduction, all those star players would still be contracted to the club. They couldn't walk or, nor be forced to leave by Man City.

    What the premier league needs (and the other leagues too) is watertight agreements on what happens in the event of breaches of the rules. When leagues look like they are making things up as they go along, they are ripe for being hit by lawsuits.

    One of the things the Football League has learned is that transfer embargoes are a much more effective deterrent than points deductions, simply because it makes it harder to break the rules even if clubs want to.


    The only equivalent I can think of in British sport is Saracens being relegated through points deductions after (large) salary cap breaches. They came back up immediately, as expected, and are still a very strong club, but aren't quite as strong as before.

    People might say Rangers, but that's a completely different scenario. They weren't punished by the league at all. The owners folded the club to avoid debt, and assumed that as they had a clean slate, they could just carry on. The league (or the other clubs in the league who voted) said that no, as a new club, you have to start at the bottom of the league. It was only those connected with Rangers who viewed this as some kind of vindictive unjust punishment.
     
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  3. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Tottenham!?? In what way are they one of the 4 'big clubs'!? Also claiming PSG are somehow much bigger than Man City is a bit of a stretch! PSG weren't even formed until the 1970's!
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Come on Hatters!
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tottenham is a huge club, always been, nationally. Considering they've not really done anything since the 1960s that's pretty impressive.

    I didn't say PSG are bigger than Man City but they have a much bigger impact on their domestic market.

    A Bundesliga without Bayern, a League Un without PSG and a La Liga without Real Madrid is almost unthinkable. But so was an SPL without Rangers and a Serie A without Juve.

    By comparison City are meh. Nobody outside of Manchester or TV land really cares.
     
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  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait you’re telling me a troll’s arguments are incoherent! That’s unpossible!
     
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  7. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    A big club sure but In what way are Tottenham one of the 'big 4'?
     
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In my lifetime Spurs have always been one of the big 5 or 6 or 7 along with Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool.

    Other teams like Villa, Chelsea, Man City, Newcastle and Everton rotate in and out.
     
  9. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    What is so incoherent facts if you want to pretend to be stupid your choice but come on everybody knows highest rated world cup in usa will be next one why? Because it will be in prime time zones in usa. Same thing if euro leagues would play their matches at 6 pm 8 pm or 9 pm they would destroy mls
     
  10. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Spurs were always more of a cup team. They had the record for the most FA Cup wins until getting passed by Man Utd and Arsenal in the premier league era.

    A quick check shows nine cup wins (incl 4x league cup, and 2 european trophies) after the 60s, but only 3 of those were after the 1980s, and only one in the 21st century.

    To people in their 30s or younger, Spurs are indeed a club that never wins anything. The club;s timing was terrible, drastically reducing their ground's capacity just as crowds started to rise again, and going for a business model of minimal risk or effort just as success started to really pay off.
     
  11. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That lets you change "Favorite Club"(above the join date) but "Club" isn't editable there.

    Just got zapped at some point in the last decade during an upgrade.
     
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  12. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    With Barnet’s loss to Solihull Moors today, there will be a new team in the Football League next season. Solihull will play the winner of the Bromley v Altrincham semifinal in the final. Three teams I wouldn’t have contemplated being in the Football League, although Altrincham were unfairly denied a place in the league in the days when there was no pro/rel.
     
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  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not nearly as prevalent as it used to be, but 20 years ago there were Americans who would root against the USMNT regardless of opponent because "Americans suck at soccer." Basically it was fashionable in some circles to hate on American soccer.
     
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  14. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I hope the winner of the Bromley v Altrincham semi go up. I think both have got a lot more potential than Solihull.

    I went to Altrincham in 2017, when Altrincham were terrible and sliding into the 7th tier of the English game, in a season when I'd see Reading and Huddersfield contest a play-off final for a place in the premier league. Next season could see them all just one division apart.
     
    M repped this.
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We've talked about drafts before. 700,000 showed up the the NFL draft event in Detroit.
     
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  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Where did they turn up?

    I just have a 'thing' about estimated crowds, as they are normally ridiculously over-estimated.

    700,000 is the south terrace at Dortmund 28 times over.

    The capacity of a terrace is more like 3 per sq metre these days, and people standing around, not on a terrace, will be at most half the, for safety reasons.

    So 700,000 would require 466,667 square metres, which if it was a square would be 683m x 683m, or in old fashioned units, that would be 746 yards v 746 yards.

    Basically, Central Park filled completely with people from 59th to 67th street.


    Looking again, it says over three days, in Campus Martins Park. That has a size of 4900 sq metres.

    700,000 divided by 3, for the three days, is 233,333 per day.

    To fit 233,000 into a park of that size would require 47 people per square metre. A metre is pretty much the same size as a yard, so clearly it's complete nonsense. Even if you count surrounding areas, double it, triple it, quadruple the area available...you still aren't coming close.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @RichardL when a city hosts the draft, the NFL sets up in a big plaza area in whatever city is hosting. The video is wild; people come from all over, each team has a section for its fans, people wear their teams’ uniforms, they cheer and boo their rivals, or their own teams’ picks.

    I personally don’t really get it, but it really is a destination event for hard core fans. Maybe imagine them being similar to fan zones at the World Cup.
     
  19. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The main location was centered on that park but was a multi-block area with other parks and closed-off streets. They said it could have 150,000 people. Then every other park in downtown also had its own screen for outdoor viewing.
     
  20. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes, but you are still looking at something around half a mile by half a mile to fit in that number of people. We are talking Woodstock size, and adding a few surrounding areas is not going to give you that number.

    Once you start thinking about it, and realising just how much space these estimated crowds would take up, you realise how ridiculous nearly all of these estimated crowds are.

    This, Live Aid in 1986 at Wembley, is 72000 people. And they are claiming over three times this number.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. BOSNAINTER

    BOSNAINTER Member

    krajina
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Feb 17, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    #41446 BOSNAINTER, Apr 28, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2024
    You just realize now that sport that lies the most here is nfl. I mean their numbers verified not mine they for their biggest game only drew 56 million world wide and out of those 50 million 40 milion was in 2 countries mexico a d canada amd 16 milion in 188 countries but according to them they have 20 milion fans in brazil 10 million im germany 15 milion in england and so on anybody believes anything nfl say is crazy
     
  22. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that 700,000 figure intended to mean that all of them were there at the same time? I'd be surprised if that was what they are claiming, considering that it was a three-day event.
     
  23. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm trying to think of an equivalent event in soccer. Maybe no Premier League team should be allowed to announce it's summer signings until the Sunday before the season starts. :D
     
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  25. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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