Rapids vs. Sporks, Sat. May 19, 7:00 pm P/I/P

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by COphysicsDave, May 17, 2012.

  1. COphysicsDave

    COphysicsDave Member

    Dec 13, 2010
    Centennial State
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's all gratefully wash our hands of Wednesday night's debacle...

    The big question on my mind: How will our Rapids' depleted defense deal with Kamara, Bunbury, Sapong, Convey and Zusi? Who should even play where is a serious dilemma. Without question, Kimura should start on the right, but who plays center back? Marshall and Freeman's Keystone Kops performance against DC was enough to convince me that neither one of them should see a start again for a long time. Maybe it's time for Ababio to step up?
     
  2. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, maybe we just go with Zapata-Moor-Kimura and toss Henao and JL as holding Mids above them.
     
  3. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    OP really has is work cut out for him the next 48 hours. Defensively, Kimura isn't the answer because Freeman, while not necessarily an improvement, hasn't been the main problem. It's the gut of the defense and last night, I thought Zapata lapsed a bit back to where he was 4 or 5 games ago.

    Offensively, Casey showed he's not a black hole so other players can pass forward knowing the ball might come back or at least result in continued possession, so maybe they'll stay interested in the play.

    KC is physical and now, after 3 straight losses, hungry. The Rapids have twice this year, NYRB and LA, accommodated a team hoping to start or build on momentum. After watching last night, I'm afraid the Rapids are just the right medicine for KC.
     
  4. aparootsa

    aparootsa Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I still don't like Zapata much, I'll agree, Zapata-Moor-Kimura is a decent back line, especially if they have a decent midfield in front of them. From the games I've watched this year, I think some of JLs problems have come from the massive territory he's worked and how little support he gets from a lot of time. With him at 1 card away from trouble for accumulation, I'd be happy to see him play a more limited role than he has to date, though then the question is how do we get any kind of attack together?
     
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder if JL is struggling to figure out how to play without Pablo. Mastroeni has never been shy about filling in a hole on defense when players get pulled out of position, and that's something JL needs to be doing but isn't consistently.
     
  6. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watch replay of 1st goal and you will see that one was on Freeman, he gave ground for 60 yards at least when he should of stepped up and challenged guy at mid-field, before runs go going for his team-mates. He would of had to stop or back pass from there.

    2nd one was shared by many, but again Freeman failed to put any pressure on Neal at all which lead to his cross in and ultimately the goal (Zapata kept both onsides).

    For a guy in there for his defense(OP words), he sure doesn't take anyone on defensively.
     
  7. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    I watched the first goal. If JL marks the man he was marking rather then let him go, no goal. Watch it again, there were SIX RAPIDS DEFENDERS, D.R. was marked by JL, but please, blame Freeman :rolleyes:
    Teams put in a dozen or more crosses a game, sure, it would be nice if the marker would prevent it, but blaming the guy marking the player making the cross and not the central defenders who left a player unmarked by 5 yards directly in front of the goal?
     
  8. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the main points of defense in soccer is to stop attacks before they get going. I find it comical a defender (with Support) retreating against an attacker and giving up at least 10 yards the whole way.

    I think anyone who has played would see this as an absolute failure by Freeman, which lead to the keystone cops routine by rest of defenders.
     
  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think both (along with Marshall doing absolutely nothing other than pointing at the ball like it was a snake about to bite him) are to blame for this one. Certainly if JL steps up and marks his man the goal is probably prevented, but if Freeman puts pressure on Neal odds are the pass doesn't get to DeRo either.
     
  10. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just FYI - Roger Espinoza will be missing this game due to a red card vs. Chicago. Also don't know for sure if Sinovic or Harrington will play at LB.
     
  11. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

    Dec 3, 2009
    Colorado
    I'd include RSL there, too. They were coming off a game where no one was happy with their midfield play, and then the Rapids had a horrible (even for them) passing game.
     
  12. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

    Dec 3, 2009
    Colorado
    I think the DeRo goal was an out and out cluster by all those guys. Or maybe it was a Rohrshach inkblot where you get to decide which defender the amorphous, passive grey blob is depicting. (I wonder if someone's going to blame Cummings.)
     
  13. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You guys dreaming about a 3-man back line do realize that, in practice, it will look more like 1-man back line...or are you expecting that the outside backs will never attack and the midfield will actually support the defense?
     
  14. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was tossing it out there, becuase Marshall is not answer. Ababio would be my next guy to toss out there to help Moor at CB.
    But, if they did go this way everyone would have to stay home all the time.
     
  15. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

    May 11, 2003
    Longmont
    True, defending is an 11 man job. We shouldn't forget the tough pass (I don't recall who) and subsequent mis-trap by Jaime that started it. A good pass and good trap and there is no turnover and no rush down field and no goal. So yeah, sometimes it's unfair to blame the the last guy (other then the keeper), I get that.

    While it might not be completely fair, the last guy gets the focus. The failures of the other players in the entire play contribute, but to pick out one of them for the focus, doesn't seem to make sense.
     
  16. SombraAla

    SombraAla Member+

    Apr 2, 2006
    Waldo (Kansas City)
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My understanding of how 3-man back lines is that they are usually comprised of 3 CBs and, as you say, would stay home all the time. Biggest issue and dependency is then that the midfield is responsible for helping defend in the wide areas.

    What I have heard is that it is important to have one more defender than there are opposing forwards, and since SKC sets up in a 4-3-3 at times (though we tend to be more 4-5-1 on the road, simply moving back the wing forwards to a slightly more defensive position) it could be dangerous to only have 3 at the back. New England tried it once or twice a few years ago and it did not go well for them. Also, in regards to the width - SKC utilizes overlapping runs from both FBs and that would put a lot of responsibility on the midfield to track everyone.

    Anyway, not trying to take over your boards or anything, just felt like responding to that since I've read and thought about it a bit. (I really do love the concept of a 3-5-2, but with more and more teams setting up in some form of 4-3-3 it seems less useful than when 4-4-2 was more the default formation).
     
  17. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    OK, he looks pretty slow out there. This with an already slow central mid. OK, not nearly as slow as Marshall. But since you asked, I have no problem with pointing out one of the many low spots for this team was the wings of the back line.
     
  18. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    Fort Collins, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have high hopes for this game. I'm glad it is at home because I think we will help the players to keep fighting. If this were on the road though I would be worried it would end up being a debacle. The way the team played on Wednesday is what I expected to see in the first games of the season. Instead we looked more organized and in sync then than we do now. If we are there backing them though it hopefully will mean more than the usual subjects will show some heart at least.
     
  19. COYP

    COYP Member

    Aug 5, 2010
    Denver
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Freeman was horrible. Defensively he brought nothing and offensively he brought even less. His passing and crossing won't cut it. Kimura certainly has his flaws but I would take Kimura any day of the week.

    As for a 3 man back line, Pickens may kill someone if we tried that.
     
  20. BYLRPhil

    BYLRPhil Member

    Jul 1, 2009
    Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey now, we beat Chivas 4-0, and Chivas beat SKC (didn't they?), so, logically, we should EASILY be able to beat SKC :thumbsup:
     
  21. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not that any team in MLS has the talent but Barcelona has done it most of this season )as well as situationally before) and they normally end up using D-mids on back line.
     
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. xingyiz

    xingyiz Member

    Mar 26, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Damn that sucks to hear he has been one of the best players this season so far if you ask me and it screws up my thoughts on who should start lol. Mullan healthy and I would have liked to see Kamani in for Castrillon. A part from his goals he just seems non existent to me. Kamani always seems to be in the mix making smart runs off the ball as well. I hate having to experiment every game but, I would like to see Castrillon sit. Maybe start Henao and Jeff in the middle with Rivero and Kamani wide.
    Like someone else stated I hope being at home us fans can help the Rapids get a win out of this one.
     
  24. aparootsa

    aparootsa Member

    Apr 4, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The main reason I'm not dead-set against a 3-man back line is that the 4-man back line has been a disaster. The way I envision it, we could have a 4-man mid with two hanging back and 2 attacking. This would let JL be more natural in his offensive-mid role, again taking some pressure off him, though there is the huge question of who else we should try as a d-mid, and I have no good answer for that, as nobody has looked good.

    That all said, I'm not opposed to trying a 4-man D again, but FFS keep Kimura in; at least he puts forth effort all the time.
     
  25. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to Clarify, JL is a Defensive midfielder his only contribution is a booming shot.
     

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