Nice find mate. I had a little browse of most of them (some were a bit hard to read and magnifying the page wasn't working though). It's interesting in that unlike with France Football in the old days, l'Equipe used something more comparable with the Italian ratings, like Vegan10 has posted for some games I think, as always likely, some things I agreed with and some not so much re: the l'Equipe ratings: I still feel like I'd give Kaka a high score in the 2005 Final for example (and is Zidane vs Portugal given an average ish one in Euro 2000 did I see Puck too?). Laudrup 7 vs Sampdoria in 92, and Savicevic 9 vs Barcelona in 1994 for example might seem about right though, if as seems the case that the l'Equipe ratings like the Italian ones aren't particularly high in general i.e 7 is good for sure (I do think Laudrup has plenty to show from the Sampdoria game, and it was nearly two assists including a brilliant one from half-way too, albeit he wasn't consistently brilliant throughout I think to be fair). Interesting maybe that the 1991 Final has comparatively good player ratings from l'Equipe vis a vis the 1992 one, while as vegan had showed too the 'entertainment' rating was significantly more for the latter (with the 1991 match expected to be much more open and better than it was - potentially Italian ratings can also be more generous with assessments of player performance levels than with the assessments of the spectacle though of course too): From what I remember I actually went with Baresi as MOTM in the 1989 Final myself, but for sure Gullit is not a surprising choice for that game (and neither would be Van Basten I guess).
Not specifically no mate, but I don't want us to get into any Gullit vs Laudrup/Bergkamp (you know I like these players) arguments, and I think Puck is implying he prefers this thread is kept for Gullit-specific discussion and videos/info etc (so the stats for Gullit's finals are ok, but maybe not so much expanding to others). I should be busy with updating IceBlood's thread even though I keep diverting myself elsewhere, mainly the Euros thread, so for that reason too I'd prefer not to get into it so much. Puck did ask me about Laudrup 'big games' I felt he played well in and I mentioned some by private message, but I think he might be planning to delve into that on a different thread if anything. I still will give some feedback on your excellent and worthwhile Gullit dribbling video at some point on this thread anyway though. I will mention again those passes to Stoichkov that could have been assists had they been converted, by Laudrup in the 1992 European Cup Final though. To be fair Ronaldinho has a couple of similar incidents with passes to Ronaldo in the 2002 World Cup Final too didn't he. Of course not every pass is converted into a goal even when the opportunities are pretty good though, and maybe Gullit had some similar things in Finals himself.
.................. Well... we have totally different points of view on Football. Well, do you like watching football as a spectator or as entertainment ! But in my case, no. I don't like fussing about footballs. Another thing about Ronaldinho... Laudrup and Bergkamp didn't have the natural instinct of a topgoalscorer killer like Gerd Muller, Puskas, Pelé, Bican and Messi. They don't need to depend on Ronaldo Nazario or Kluivert or Stoichkov to decide the matches for them. ..they don't need to depend on passes to the goal only... like Michel Platini you can be the bow and the arrow at the same time, always and with a lot of aggression; But.. I'm not diminishing the technical qualities and skills of Ronaldinho..Laudrup... and Bergkamp. !
Please move this criticism of Laudrup, Ronaldinho and pals to another thread. The '100 greatest per position' thread or so. This is cancelling the purpose of this thread. If you want to make a point Gullit has a strong record in finals at a time goals were hard to come by, fine (the Delanay and Corbett list from a decade ago showed the same thing - comfortably in the top 50 ever until then). Maybe all the other 'bete noires' don't have that. But please condense it to a few posts (not 50+ entries of individual games - with some counting errors in accumulating the numbers). I think many can appreciate it people investigate this for themselves but, and I don't want to sound rude or impolite, not a presentation like this. @comme - in case my earlier request is not seen or does not trigger an notification (that can happen I know).
.................. .............. I have a question for you my friend. Can you tell me how and where Kees de Wit and Marc... how they managed to produce and find these videos of the games on Ruud Gullit... of Feyenoord from Rotterdãm and PSV in the Netherlands??? did you find new videos on Gullit there in Netherlands ???? .................
.................I have a question for you my friend. Can you tell me how and where Kees de Wit and Marc... how they managed to produce and find these videos of the games on Ruud Gullit... of Feyenoord from Rotterdãm and PSV in the Netherlands??? did you find new videos on Gullit there in Netherlands ????
............. so the Space at this moment is to praise the greatness of Ruud Gullit, not to worry about the well-being of Michael Laudrup or Ronaldinho or others players aswell... Honestly, until now, as I am Ruud Gullit's number one fan, honestly, you haven't said anything interesting until now . ! i need to see much more about it . ....In the 1981–82 season, Gullit was in fine form as Haarlem finished fourth and qualified for Europe for the only time in their history. In that same season, Gullit scored the goal he would later consider his finest: "Playing against Utrecht I went past four defenders and then the goalkeeper, and scored. It was an unforgettable goal for me."[13] Barry Hughes was so impressed with the young Gullit that he described him as the "Dutch Duncan Edwards".[12] did you find this goal there in Netherlands ????
......... PuckVanHeel created this thread honestly so far he hasn't posted anything really interesting, relevant or extraordinary about Ruud Gullit honestly it gives me the impression that he doesn't like Ruud Gullit as a person and as a player either. My intention was clearly to show Ruud Gullit's high level in finals. bringing as a counterpoint Laudrup, Ronaldinho and Bergkamp as examples of performances in finals . " democratically for sure " . That's all. You can check it yourself and verify that I'm not lying in the information shown here. These are completely true numbers and statistics alike... from Ruud Gullit..Laudrup... Ronaldinho or Bergkamp... PuckVanHeel honestly doesn't post anything interesting, just nonsense always... irrelevant content for sure. I didn't invent anything are real numbers of players mentioned . !
A comparison in finals is fine but not spread out over 50+ posts (imho). For the 1991-92 assist count you had it also condensed to a single post. Kudos for that effort and I'll revisit it. I am honest when I say I am not Gullit his biggest fan. But I think it might actually help people when I say, from my informed if flawed opinion, Gullit had his best phase over here in 1985-86. I wanted to highlight his Oranje games before 1988 - as a start - for two reasons: - Those have become forgotten now. A lot more so than him playing alongside Cruijff in 1983-84 at Feyenoord (too bad they narrowly missed out on euro 1984 - Cruijff might have played there). Here and abroad. There is an English book, by an Englishman, about his Feyenoord spell, to give an idea. - You can actually appreciate his class there. Such as him playing in 1986 against West Germany, in West Germany (with an Austrian referee - no, not the Helmut Kohl one), in a not so friendly atmosphere. West Germany only missed Rummenigge compared to their World Cup team. Netherlands missed many players, including Rijkaard and Van Basten. With a sub-standard team Gullit looks good there (match could have been 3-3). And one famous scene, often returning in introduction compilations, has him toying with seasoned Bundesliga defenders. While they try to kick him and tumble over him, slip on the grass while Gullit is dancing with the ball. The German match commentator says actually that a) Holland belongs in Mexico and b) Gullit is a phenomenon. I don't think it is my intention to only show the negative stuff but if, say, over here the Dutch match commentator liked Laudrup a bit more in 1984, then I note it too. Because also that provides context for how Gullit was/is seen, and how a perception grows. With what lense people looked at the game and him.
I saw that question earlier a few times. I think I replied (?) the goal is familiar to me. With power, control and change of direction, but I cannot find it on the internet right now. I think I know which goal he means.
My next post will be about the 1986 West-Germany match (and also something nice about Matthaus! seriously!). "honestly it gives me the impression that he doesn't like Ruud Gullit as a person and as a player either." This is (for a part) a misunderstanding. I hope below clarification is not superfluous . (found my passion for football back! I have more time now and can type/think faster again!) As a person As a person I think he is cheerful and for 90% likable. My evaluation of that (both rationally and feeling-wise) has moved upward in the past ten years. I now think and feel less negative about his role in the 1990 World Cup or him walking away in 1994 (what about that dozen players not going to 1978 in Argentina? the list is long). When I read or hear negative stuff about his spell as Newcastle United manager, if anything I'd like to defend him. With now Shearer, among others, in an influential punditry role and the the Roy of the Rovers captain for England in that time. While he might creditably radiate he has one of the highest peaks ever, certainly for Benelux standards, he rarely (never?) really went that far. He has always been a fanboy of Van Basten - think he always was from 1984 onward. He said about himself he is a "great player", see the first page when he was in De Kuip in 1995, but to my knowledge never really radiated "I am the best" or "I had a peak like Ronaldo" (you can pick which Ronaldo). (5:50 onward) (the first 7 minutes - also a special message for England fans at the very end of the video) As a pundit Obviously I don't always see him at work (I switched off the TV for Germany vs Hungary when the match commentator couldn't stop talking about Kroos from minute one onward, when scoreline was 1-0, and Ruud was on duty). I think Gullit his level can vary quite a bit here. I have seen him om MOTD several years ago when he was brilliant about Chelsea their five men defense, how important it is then to switch play etc. On many other occasions I'd give him a 3/10. He also tends to have a standard where only your Mbappes, your Maradonas, your Ronaldos can play football (or Van Nistelrooij, in his eyes). That is not insightful punditry for me. The CEO of Shell can see that too, the daughter of my brother can see this. Cruijff had a reputation for being critical and savage, but I think with him it was more like 20/80 (15% good 85% not great). When everyone is "sensational" and "legend" it loses meaning; when only Mbappe and Maradona can play football it also loses meaning. Cruijff for example said in 2003 (!!) already Kompany has something. Look where he is now, manager of Bayern Munich, legend of Man City. Of course he was sometimes also wrong, like any talent spotter, and then I always remember Tarik Oulida. I think it is admirable Gullit can express himself in Portuguese Brazilian (only know this recently, thanks for this @Wiliam Felipe Gracek - peace, as @PDG1978 said in the Maradona thread), in Italian, in German in Germany etc. That speaks for him. I also think a young Van Dijk with his rampaging runs (example and example) and free kicks sometimes looked like Gullit (no, not in that class). For some reason Gullit never said this. Then the nonsense "played only one tournament" - well, look at how he actually performed in an Oranje shirt between 2015 and 2020 in particular. It is very impressive, also statistically at an individual level (between 2015 and early this year he never lost with more than 2 goals conceded). Van Dijk is a good example of that for Gullit only your Matthaus, Rijkaards, Mbappes and Zidanes can play football. As a player I think it is transparent and honest when you say you are not someone's biggest fan (but as said, opinions can change, see first paragraph). Not a "best ever" or "second only to Cruijff" type of fan, or "this is 100% my playing style" type of fan. I'd like to point out though some influential lists ranked him lower. Around 2000 he was regularly placed ninth on more than one occasion. My placement is higher, with the retirement of Robben and Bergkamp still in the future at that time. Two influential all-time lists from 1999 (seventh and ninth - for the latter I also posted all the descriptions): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/d...ation-1979-1994.1978389/page-20#post-38713069 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/d...ation-1979-1994.1978389/page-21#post-38714963 (see also how 35/100 placed him in their all-time XI) For all the Eredivisie players between 1981 and 2014 (16th) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/d...ation-1979-1994.1978389/page-18#post-38563301 I don't think placing him 9th in 1999 is fair and does justice to reality. This are almost all not stupid lists and, for the most part, by people who know their stuff. 16th for Eredivisie players is also not my placement. I'd think around top 10, possibly higher (haven't thought very deep about that, or saw all that is available - also for that reason an opinion can change, go up). I hope this post is appreciated. The pundit Gullit I am very often indeed not a fan of. Good to see PDG back.
Here a second match, with a link to the current hosts. The match of 14 may 1986 against West-Germany and in West Germany. Between the mid-80s and the early-90s the animosity between Germany and 'Holland' (especially Holland) was at a peak. It is also visible in this 'friendly' match. I don't think it had quite that level before or since. Although in 1971 for example, the players Rinus Israel and Van Hanegem bullied Willy Lippens out of the national team squad because he was a German (in their eyes; perhaps also some other reasons but think this was the main one). As remarked on the Maradona thread, Lothar Matthaus made some very nasty comments a few years later. It is fair to not repeat them here. I think many people can sometimes be too emotional and say things they shouldn't say (I can still become emotional on things related to Southern Germany and Israel). A younger Lothar Matthaus had Johan Cruijff as his child idol and example (if people don't believe this, I can prove). Sometimes people think I am anti-English, while if I say Bellingham has performed better than Vinicius I get accused of pro-Englishness and pro-European stances (not on this board but by people speaking to). Sometimes I do feel yes that certain circles don't really rate us (well, not the Italians in 1993 apparently), and I also feel the 'non big countries' get dismissed by default. Unless you are Cristiano Ronaldo. Later on tensions eased a bit. Lothar Matthaus received an (unexpected) welcome in February 2000. The KNVB honored him with the second highest distinction, which is funnily the same rank as Cruijff. Matthaus actually appreciated this and didn't expect. Edgar Davids was captain on this occasion. I don't know whether Matthaus is a good pundit, I've heard many don't think so, but Matthaus was also pretty positive here and said in the autumn of last year on Austrian television that Arjen Robben is in his eyes the best ever foreigner in the Bundesliga (he wasn't the only one). Also another remark, in addition, how "the very very best" players from 'Holland' have "something really special" around them (Robben is not from 'Holland' - Holland is indeed over-represented relative to population in squads). He mentioned Van Dijk and De Jong. I remember this and could search it back because there was a line somewhat similar to the famous one of Beckenbauer ("I won the World Cup, yet...") His former national team manager as well: https://www.thisisanfield.com/2020/...by-one-of-footballs-all-time-great-defenders/ So if people think the current tensions are high (you can get that feeling with for ex. Lukas Tank his "Klinsmann better than Van Basten"), it was worse at Gullit his prime. Voetbal International in 2017, later copied and amended by FourFourTwo, ranked Netzer higher than Gullit. It probably doesn't happen if you'd ask them in 1993. The match See the post above, which I'll not repeat again in full. This was around Gullit his best phases (later in the video you can see his actual skills, the first part can be misleading). My comments below are not based on these highlights (but some of the bits like "deserve in Mexico" can be heard). West Germany was on their way to Mexico in 1986. Played in West Germany, an Austrian as referee (not Helmut Kohl). For Gullit it was one of the very last games in the season, maybe tired. He'd play two more Eredivisie games with nothing to play for. One of the more famous scenes, often used in introductory compilations, is at 0:35. What I appreciate here is how West Germany was basically playing with their best team (Rummenigge the omission), while Netherlands as so often between 1980 and 1987, didn't. There was no Rijkaard and no Van Basten, just as lesser names like Van Tiggelen weren't there (Van Tiggelen was in the frame, yes). Gullit makes a good chance for the 3-2 at the very end. It would be interesting to know what the Dutch match commentator makes of this. Was the idea that later developed already set in motion? The German match commentator is full of compliments and says Gullit is a phenomenon. He also says Netherlands deserves to be in Mexico and are "agile" and "slick". That might sound strange, but remember the Elo rank never slipped below 14th in those lean years and they narrowly lost out against semi-finalists (1982, 1986) and finalists (1984 - the Malta game). Fewer teams qualified in those days. Often many good players, also when playing abroad, did not play (now people as FDJ and Koopmeiners, to name two, are sorely missed, you can imagine how it was then). It was the days before the FIFA international calendar. For the earlier France game one can think of Arnold Mühren (an earlier free kick against France), of John Metgod (first goal here, Real Madrid vs Barcelona), or Jan Peters (Gazzetta grades here below). Captain Ruud Krol, then in USA and Italy, was sometimes not around either (not released by club). The 1986 qualification campaign saw four different national team managers - not really helpful. I don't say they would have the best team, for 1988 there is per SofaScore strong evidence for such idea, but more would have been possible for 1982, 1984 and 1986. 1116669892110028811 is not a valid tweet id I think those pre-1988 games, as mentioned and reasoned above, actually might help to appreciate him. @Wiliam Felipe Gracek also mentioned his Spain games I saw. Again, hope this is appreciated and I certainly appreciate William his efforts (and mentioning of some games he liked), and yeah I have seen now you are a fan of the contribution to football and certain players. Also appreciate PDG of course.
.............Til Here ! Ruud Gullit 11 matches .. 6 goals .....+ 4 assists and + 1 pre-assist aswell Total = 11 Michael Laudrup 16 matches ... 2 goals ..... + 3 assists and + 1 pre-assist aswell Total = 6 Dennis Bergkamp 19 matches .... 1 goal ..... + 3 assists and + 4 pre-assists aswell ! Total = 8 Ronaldinho Gaucho 27 matches ..... 6 goals .... + 5 assists and .... + 1 pre-assist aswell ( 1 * auxerre french cup final in 2003 ) Total = 12 participations in goals . ! Ruud Gullit average of participations to the team ===== == 1, 00 % Michael Laudrup average of participation to the team =============== 0. 37 , 05 % Dennis Bergkamp average of participation to the team ================= 0 . 42 , 03% Ronaldinho Gaucho average of participation to the team =============== 0 . 44, 44 % .......... per Finals disputed for both ! of them . ! Til Here ... Ranking List in the main Finals disputed : the next name to enter in this list will be Diego Armando Maradona . 1 . Ruud Gullit == 1 % 2. Ronaldinho Gaucho == 0 . 44 % 3. Dennis Bergkamp == 0.42 % 4. Michael Laudrup == 0. 37 % do you know how many goals, assists and pre-assists has Lothar Matthaus in the Finals disputed for him in whole career ????
yes ... I know well this game .... I saw this game already 5 times ... i mean ... whole game dear mate ! thank you by participation here . !
...........Til Here ! Right Now Ruud Gullit 11 matches .. 6 goals .....+ 4 assists and + 1 pre-assist aswell Total = 11 Michael Laudrup 16 matches ... 2 goals ..... + 3 assists and + 1 pre-assist aswell Total = 6 Dennis Bergkamp 19 matches .... 1 goal ..... + 3 assists and + 4 pre-assists aswell ! Total = 8 Ronaldinho Gaucho 27 matches ..... 6 goals .... + 5 assists and .... + 1 pre-assist aswell ( 1 * auxerre french cup final in 2003 ) Total = 12 participations in goals . ! Diego Armando Maradona til here ... Total = 15 matches ... 7 goals .+.. + 10 assists and + 5 pre-assists === 1, 46 % without the Copa San Martin de Torres Tours Final in 1980 ..... 14 matches ...... 3 goals + 10 assists and + 5 pre-assists = 1, 28, 05 % ! Diego Armando Maradona average of participations to the team ===== == 1, 28, 05 % Ruud Gullit average of participations to the team ===== == 1, 00 % Michael Laudrup average of participation to the team =============== 0. 37 , 05 % Dennis Bergkamp average of participation to the team ================= 0 . 42 , 03% Ronaldinho Gaucho average of participation to the team =============== 0 . 44, 44 % .......... per Finals disputed for both ! of them . ! Til Here ... Ranking List in the main Finals disputed : the next name to enter in this list will be Diego Armando Maradona . 1. Diego Maradona == 1, 28 % 2 . Ruud Gullit == 1 , 00 % 3. Ronaldinho Gaucho == 0 . 44 % 4. Dennis Bergkamp == 0.42 % 5. Michael Laudrup == 0. 37 %
................... I'm definitely Ruud Gullit's number one fan in the whole world for sure. But I'm not that kind of blind, lunatic and alienated fan Of players. Ruud Gullit certainly had numerous pros. But first I'm going to comment on his cons and his entire career. ! His injury propensity was extremely bad... like at C/D level... in Pro evolution soccer . ..................... What is an injury-prone player? What exactly does it mean to be injury-prone? Dictionaries tell us that injury-prone means “frequently injured or often sustaining injuries”. When people say “injury-prone,” they usually have someone's injury history in mind. The phrase itself is not concerned about types of injuries or the reason behind them. ..................... he has had 4 surgeries on his right knee and one surgery on his left ankle. Despite having very good natural fitness, Gullit was a brutal force of nature and had a lot of power.. But.. due to... injuries he was never really very very fit for long times ... apart from... 1980/81 .... 1981/82 .....1983/84.... 1985/86 ... 1986/87 and 1987/88 ............. Even though Ruud Gullit had a very powerful shot and was incredible at his peak... But... he lacked more precision in his shots... shot accuracy was very very bad at average... like between 74... to 82 in the winning eleven really lower accuracy... similar to the shots with no precision at all in the 1990 World Cup tournament... of course excluding the goal against Ireland ! in the second game .
As Ruud Gullit had all the qualities in terms of passing quality, he was really very complete in these aspects of the game... I believe it is a problem with Dutch Football in general... They want to keep the ball for a long time by trying to widen the field a lot ... unfortunately this type of game for a long time ends up losing the aggression and verticality that is always necessary in every match to win the championships . He didn't have very good aggression . !
Interesting that Football Manager exercise. Nice find. I wouldn't think Ramos, Carlos and Gerrard are in the top 10. They're are all over the place I can imagine (a Roberto Carlos beyond say 25 years old less so). Dirk Kuijt that high, with his distribution of attributes (not the level of the attributes) I am not so surprised of. But of course he was top assister at World Cups and scored goals in CL semi finals and final. I think he had actually six surgeries on his knee and the ankle injury (of 1985) was inflicted by someone else. Some of the knee problems too (it has been scientifically proven referees are biased against tall and big players). It's admirable he still reached a very high level between 1991 and 1996 I think. As mentioned, his DBScalcio rating for 1992-93 is even higher as the season before. But I found some nice stuff in the newspaper archives of NRC Handelsblad (and no, that are not hagiographies). You're onto something here. I guess he was pretty accurate and diverse when fit and feeling well. There are multiple examples of delicate lobs and chips, of subtle finishes, of bended free kicks etc. Even with his left foot (not as ambidextrous as his namesake Ruud Krol obviously). It is possibly something he had to work for and didn't come naturally to him while having been schooled as a central defender (originally). This maybe suffered when he wasn't fit (always? 50% of the time?). It would be interesting to see the stats for 1987-88 if that is possible. I was surprised for the stats Vegan10 once showed for 1986-87. Maradona had 7 open play goals and over 120 shots in the league. Of course not a finisher like say Romario at his best but you cannot have everything.