Post-match: USA vs. Brazil - June 12, 2024

This is the mistake I strongly believe we keep making. Top 3-5 is subjective, but he's definitely top 10. However, it's his POSITION that makes him a liability. Very good teams like Brazil, Spain, France, and Argentina have this problem. They have guys who would start anywhere else, or who may be in the top 10 of their position in the world, but there's another guy on their same team who is also in the top 10 and just a higher rank. My point is being one of the best players doesn't necessarily mean you're the best fit for the formation and tactics. Someone has to sit in favor of someone else, it's a good problem to have.

He can be a core player from the bench, or in the right tactical set-up a-la MMA even though I believe we're past MMA. Yes, I'm putting a lot of emphasis on Wes failing to deliver because he's taking the spot of someone who would traditionally be responsible for getting the ball to the attack. Instead he's usually waiting for the ball to come to him. This is what makes our attack seem so empty sometimes, wrong players in the wrong roles. Is he upending Adams, Cardoso, or Musah as the 6? No. Is he upending Reyna, Aaronson, or even Puli as CAM? No. Should he upend Musah, LDLT, or even Cardoso in a double pivot as the 8? In my strong opinion, NO. He doesn't provide what those players do in those positions, he's a roamer, and we can't afford it. As a sub however, he could be a great weapon!

The yacht isn't a specific person, it's a system that get's the ball to the players most suited to attack. McKennie being what a lot of people want him to be is the magic carpet.

 

I like Tillman a lot but I think a lot of players "get in their heads" too much when they don't perform well from the get-go... and I think that is where he is at. He knows he played poorly in his initial debut performances and now he is thinking too much on the field. I also don't think it helps that GB runs a very specific formation w/ traditional wingers and no real 10...

 

It's semantics - caught out of position or beat for speed. At the end of the day, you got beat.

But it is bad positioning to not be touch tight high up the pitch and have the guy turn you, like Vini did. Going to ground, missing, and scrambling like he did early on puts you out of position. Some of them he's just getting beat 1 v. 1 or out-run to balls he even has had starts on.

You have to caveat w/ it's Brasil, but literally everyone else in the back 4-5 did better defensively. And no shortage of shots got onto Turner. It's hardly a routine save to come out of net quick and stick a leg out, stick a hand out point blank to stop a shot from going in, or dive down to the side while allowing no rebound. Richards was the biggest culprit here.

We'll have to address that CB pairing, or we don't project to keep shots out of the net against the better to maybe middling teams in this comp, bar heroics from Turner. He's somewhere between what he was last night, and the first debacle.

It's not. We have Miles, who's been a better all-around CB for us the last 5 yrs. And Zimmerman's at least a better defender. I think at least Miles should be bumped into the starting unit w/ 1 of the other 2. He'd cover for their lack of quickness, alertness, aerial ability, and physicality. While not hurting playing out of the back, cuz he's never been part of a duo who couldn't do it. Smooth w/ the ball, just not a long ball threat. But our current options are barely going that route either.

When we turn the ball over, we have to do a much better job in transition d, immediately putting pressure on the ball, and marking men in our area. This has been a theme the last couple of yrs.

They have to take on more burden now that Scally can't progress. And we can't send many long balls to Pepi or Balogun. We should if it's there as an option, but most of the time it won't be. So they're going to have to find a way to play out. One of those modes is hero-runs, and they're coming down the middle more naturally.

 

We’re not good at getting the ball into spots where he can show something. It’s the same reason our strikers barely get any touches.

 

Yeah, please don't read my posts if you can't accept the truth.

 

Because the Copa is going to be our last chance to play meaningful matches against non-CONCACAF opponents.

 

Choking means not even getting a shot on target.

Pulisic one-timed a good shot that was saved by a world-class keeper....that's NOT choking.

 

I get your point.

But I think you both underestimate McKennie's impact in a sport with very little scoring. I also think you are overestimating guys like Musah and Cardoso's ball progression abilities and putting way too much about our offense on a single player. Both of those guys (Musah and Cardoso) are very ball secure, but neither is great at effectively breaking lines or more than one. Sure, against little opposition, or on the dribble for the Musah, they can get it forward, but what we're looking for is someone who passes defenders and creates danger.

Wes is not a consistent passer, but he does that better than either of them. He's our best at the long diagonal and right there with a CB or two on balls over the top. He's much more aggressive on the ground and in the attacking third. There's plenty of turnovers, but he creates chances.

If someone where along the way we have a really strong ball progressor that also brings the box to box defense that Wes does, I'll agree with you. But what I see are guys who can hold the ball and one kind dribble the ball and the other can make short, safe passes, but neither is creating much advantage.

In the end, I'm taking the Wild Card that ends up creating goals, dominating midfields and covering on D. Until we get someone better.

 

I'm a big Tillman fan, but he's made his own bed quite a bit with the US as well. Go back and watch the first T&T match and count how many times basic touch let him down in the final third. It's a huge amount.

If you watch Tillman at PSV, he's also a guy who plays off other guys. Quick passing sequences, short spurts in the attacking zone and a shot. He's not dominating the ball and creating from it, regardless of the counting stats.

Also, why is there so much focus on Tillman after the Brazil game? Am I missing something?

 

May be this is from your dictionary only then. Anyway, there must be a reason that he didn't get meaningful minutes at Chelsea. In this kind of 1 v 1 situation, (be that there was another brazilian defender next to Allison), his shooting angle is much wider than the one Rodrygo scored, and this is the difference between what I called world class.

 

I basically agree about this on Wes, but it means that those games when he doesn't bring the intensity are a real problem. Because he can make a good skillful play at times, like the pass that set up Pulisic in the second half of this game for one example. But he tends to get lose on the ball when trying to pass from tricky positions and those good attacking moments can be fleeting so he really needs to be bringing the fire to make his contributions clearly necessary. When Wes is bringing the intensity, he's a sure start for me and he helps this team tremendously because he can both create danger and snuff out the opposition. When he wants to jog around, just stroke the ball here and there occasionally and not work as hard as he can to help all over the field, he can bring this team down. Not only does the team rely on his intensity, but his overall effectiveness requires it in my estimation.

 

Cohesion is a key word in the international game. Cohesion is hard to achieve in a couple of weeks. What I think is that we're much better at it than this Brazil. Brazil plays like a bunch of individuals who for the most part have no idea what the other guys' plans are. They're not improving at all.

 

Haven't read thru the thread yet but finished a 2nd viewing this morning. The big (imo) things that stood out:

1) The team was playing ok (subject to a certain weakness I'll point out hereunder) when Brazil scored to go up 1-0 at the 17' mark. Immediately, the players went into head down, shoulders sloping, palms up dithering on the ball. I read their minds which said: "That guy again and Gregg does nothing to fix any of this. I'm not doing this sh*t.." 9 minutes later Captain America scored on pure effort, showing how far character goes in making the best football players. At that stage the rest of the team suddenly perked up. Let's go to point 2

2) We don't have a 9. Brazil doesn't either, b.t.w. What did Pepi add? I don't see it. Balo? Nada. Gregg should start Aaronson. Look at his passes to Pulisic and Scally when he comes on around 74'. Both players are so dead tired that their neuro muscular systems just mis-fire wildly trying to compensate for the heat and humidity and late stage of the game. If those passes come earlier, it's "game on". Aaronson himself shows here and there that he hasn't played in a while but it's easy to see that Aaronson's positioning and play and pace could lead to chances. I don't know how Arena's signature pre game talk goes verbatm but it's something like "first kick, first fould first this first that". What Arena is really getting at is pace, Donovan was his pacesetter. Neither Gio nor BigMac nor Musah is a pace setter, Giroud was a great pace setter for the teams he played for because he was always available for receiving the ball and moving it with profit. The obstacle to playing Aaronson as a forward is Berhalter's great fear of what the "world" will think of US Soccer. Well, as things stand, absent changes, we are a very easy team to play against. Nobody fears Balo or Pepi or Sarge and Wright has not been at his best playing the 9 albeit he's a great finisher when given chances,

3) The best midfield is Gio, Adams and Johnny. However, in tournament play in summer heat, the most important guy is likely going to be the guy who moves into the rotation when one of the 3 "best" need relief. For me that guy is Musah but Musah is somebody who seems to have daddy issues or something of that nature. He hasn't been on the greatest terms with any of his managers from what I can tell and I think it has to do with the difference between what role he thinks he should play and what the manager wants him to play. I guess Adams, Johnny, and Gio could get together with Musah as a corps and hash out roles for different situations if Berhalter can't do it.

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, which I may well have just missed. Was anyone else shocked at how horrible that wall was that Pulisic was able to just slot the ball straight through it?

 

A defensive striker... haven't heard such talk since the days of Conor Casey!

3) Johnny looked too bad vs colombia to say that he's surpassed adams or mckennie in the midfield yet.

 

His impact was seen and appreciated in the last cycle. He hasn't shown up consistently enough in a while and only started playing well for club when the formation was changed, one we do not and should not use. Again, on the spectrum, McKennie is still a good player and can show up at times, but my argument is always what are we giving up to continually throw him in there no matter his form or effort.
If other guys are given a FAIR shot with the A-team and fail then I would gladly eat my words. However, McKennie is always in the starting line-up and coincidently we usually complain about the same lack of flow in the attack.

I'm not particularly high yet on Cardoso or Musah, but I understand what they can do as ball progressors that McKennie can't or doesn't do consistently. And I'm not sure that Wes is a better passer, or dribbler than Cardoso. I'm also not sure that Wes is better at creating goals or dominating the midfield over the others. And where has been his cover on D lately? I'd say that Cardoso is better in D anyways. Wes disappears many times, but he get's covered by the usual "he creates goals, he makes things happen" statements to excuse his free pass. It's not even hard to understand, he's the guy USSF have invested heavily into either in marketing or overseas connections. He's the "face" of the team, the narrative. Him and Pulisic. The difference is one is consistently showing up and showing his worth, the other not so much.

I'm an LDLT stan, but he hasn't really been given a fair shot in that role. I don't think he's good at being an impact sub, he's better at getting into the flow of the game early. For the US-Japan game, LDLT started and IMO was one of if not the best player for us. However on BS he was being scapegoated to death as the reason we looked so bad out there. I watched the game THREE more times to figure out what was wrong and I left with the same conclusion every time. McKennie , Adams, and the CB's were having horrible games and a disciplined Japan pressed us on the right side where Dest, LDLT, and Aaronson were. They fought hard but couldn't get out of the pressure, especially because whenever the ball would get to the CB's or the DM's it would be lost. Japan knew who to press and it worked.
My point for bringing this up is that many times we look out of synch because of "untouchable" players like McKennie, but the blame goes to others while the free passes continue to go to them. Some of us here have noticed this, others are a bit more disingenuous.

 

Jack Edwards?

 

On the second viewing I rewound a few times to figure out what was going on. Basically a lot of Brazilians pointing at each other and moving here and there and the next thing you knew Puli fired and scored.

 

My "most improved on 2nd viewing" goes to Ream, easily. Lotsa good stuff.

 

Overall, it was a good training game. It provided good exercise for the coaches to experiment and figure out the starting 11 for Copa, but both teams have some work to do. With a bit of luck, the US could have won.

Brazil played 4-2-4 from the middle of the second half on, which opened up a ton of space for the US. Brazil's inability to capitalize on chances created with 4 forwards (Vini Jr., Gabriel Martinelli, Sávio, and Endrick) is worrisome. I thought it was a good experiment, but I’m not sure if this is something Brazil will be able to use effectively. A more pragmatic 4-3-3 or even 4-4-2 could make this team more solid in defense.

We desperately need this Copa America to develop into a team. We lost a lot of time waiting for the dream coach, and Diniz’s playing style didn’t work for the national team. Our World Cup preparation is pretty much just starting.

Good luck at the Copa. This should be a good one with Argentina, Uruguay, and Colombia all playing well. Brazil needs to find its mojo back, but the question is if the US can be the dark horse.

 

I thought Johnny was fine, actually more than fine, against Colombia except obviously for the goal where he was dispossessed from behind. On that play it looked like he was not aware that the defender was closing. Some of that is on his teammates who need to be yelling at him about the pressure at that point. Maybe they did but that's not what it looked like to me. In any event the far greater transgression was him hanging his head after the mistake and not preventing the entry pass on the eventually goal. It was absolutely not a good look and I'm not excusing it but it also came at a point when the entire team was imploding.

Other than that I was impressed with him.

 

Not actually a big fan of Pat Mcafee but sort of hilarious watching him talk about the game.

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Waited all day to make my response. Just two comments.

1. I seriously think a bunch of "fans' should just go find a different team to get behind. Played toe-to-toe with the #5 team in the world and just so ,much negativity. Were we perfect. Hell no but good grief we played very well.

2. Berhalter is in a no win position for a whole lot of BSers. Play like shit then its cause his tactics and player selection suck. Play well and its cause the players are very good and recognized they need to do better even though their coach sucks.

Just too freaking funny.

 

he started and scored in a UCL semi that they went on to win, hurting himself in the process?

He got a lot of meaningful minutes before he got hurt and Chelsea turned into whatever the hell they've been the last two seasons, which is mid table at best.