I call it great marketing I praise the US system for what it did, just doesn't work for us based on their overall track record and that's on the 3 clubs specifically not the league. I'd argue the US-based clubs have done more for us than the 3 clubs here. Might as well free 3 slots for US cities that wants a club, willing to pay to get in and build a gorgeous brand new stadium CPL is trying to find a balance with its roster rules which was done voluntarily and inspired by what Liga MX used to do up until recently until they've abandoned that formula - not sure it's working great for their national program thus far...
Now we have the English MLS fan pontificating about Canadian development to actual Canadians. Which of those other leagues in the world have a closed system that disincentivises everyone else? Weah, Mckennie, Richards, and Reyna never played in MLS. DC United have two former players on the US Olympic roster. Im sure the large section in the roster release pinpointing any relationship the players had with MLS should explain it. I dont think there actually two players who have played for FCD and NYCFC that most USMNT fans care about.
The problem isn't MLS. It is that Canada only has three teams. The US needed to at least 20 teams to get three to care. I wouldn't praise the US or Canada systems at all. MLS has run over both federations and the game suffers in both countries accordingly.
If anyone is going to claim Kone and Davies aren't products of MLS then by that same logic any player CPL produces that goes to Europe and excells must also be seen the same. We can just say that by the time they played in CPL they were CPL ready thus shouldn't count. And if we stick with that logic then CPL will never develop good players, at least those that go to Europe and excell. We just gotta keep it consistent and not change narratives and agendas to our liking.
I actually agree with your first part. Your second part not so much. MLS can't operate a full Canadian league. They just added the 3 biggest Canadian markets like they do with NBA, NHL and MLB. If MLS would've stuck with US based only (what some of us want) Canada wouldn't even be in the NT conversation right now at CONCACAF level. How many players was Canada producing prior to those 3 MLS Canadian teams? How good were they? MLS helped but sure 3 teams isn't enough to cover an entire country. That's where CPL should take over but it took them long enough to establish an own Canadian domestic league.
Those leagues are the best in the world at what they do, that's not the case for MLS which gives little incentive for fans outside those 3 cities to be interested in the league or clubs, and they've peaked in their own markets. They'll just keep watching UEFA and top 5 football instead. Well Canada is a 2 time CONCACAF champion, how many have they won since 2008? How's the pre-MLS era record for youth teams compared to post 2008? Let's not forget that it was only during the last WCQ that Canada started their ascension during the MLS era. (Mostly thanks to US-based clubs) That's almost 13 years of same old same old as pre-MLS... this thread has plenty of receipts of people posting about just that. They've always produced players, only a small number went to Europe since their was no domestic league to go further here while the bulk of the rest quit the sport due to lack of opportunities. As good as those produced by the 3 academies, the results were the same until 2021 where people started to acknowledge a change (plenty of receipts in this thread alone) Look, they can stay all they want. All the clip was saying is that when the CSA, CSB, CPL, League 1 Canada gets together to streamline the pathway from grassroots to pro, the 3 MLS clubs shouldn't factor in that conversation, there's no point. They are already doing their own thing independently from our system as they've always wanted and won't fully participate in it unless it's under their conditions. Fine, if a good player comes out of their academies, bonus points for everyone. If not, we can rely on a better system where everyone will be on the same page. Football will just keep growing and expand everywhere in this country. The 3 MLS clubs will still be here operating in their own bubbles where they've already peaked for fans until someone at the CSA or CONCACAF starts asking what's the point.
Without a pro league academies are worthless. Those 3 Canadian teams provided what they needed to succeed. You might not like it because it's MLS but that's the way it works. But if going by your logic then any player that started off in some random youth club in Canada and then moved to CPL and from there moved on to Europe, will you claim that CPL had nothing do with his development and it was all the youth club's work? Nope. You'll be giving credit and bragging how good CPL is at developing players just as you are now. At least stay consistent.
I can count on 2 hands the number of players that made an impact on the senior National team from those 3 canadian-based academies in 16 years. Maybe you're right on the youth teams who were almost exclusively Canadian MLS academy players Looks like they could actually qualify when the CSA actually made an effort to scout instead of just picking MLS academy players and ignoring the rest. Looks like they were winning trophies before and were able to finish top 3 until 2007 CPL would not exist if I was wrong. The CSA was actually working on a D2 league which then transitioned into a plan for "a Canadian division" within USL to act as "feeders" to the 3 clubs by adding clubs all over the country to further support them - they were going structure the entire pyramid just to feed those 3. All of that was scrapped after being eliminated from 2014 WCQ to Brazil. This lead to the project to launch a domestic Division 1 + reforming D3 based on the CHL model. Montagliani had lost faith with status quo and opted against doubling down, it's hard to not see where he was coming from at the time. Any serious football nation would have hit the reset button way sooner after seeing both stagnation and regression. I actually give lots of credit to the US-based clubs, I don't know why you're trying so hard to make a case for the 3 Canadian-based club when there's no defense for their lacklustre results after almost 16 years, lack of talent of the Canadian pool isn't the reason. The CSA saw it, the media always knew it but didn't care enough until now and anyone who knows or worked within this country system knows it too. It's totally fine to say that MLS and the US system works for the US but that model doesn't work in Canada because we're too different with too many different sets of circumstances. This country is more than 3 cities where over 2/3 of Canadians don't even live in them
16 years? Have Montreal and Vancouver been in MLS that long? I think you misunderstand how academies work. They don't just become FC Dallas or the New York Red Bulls immediately. It takes years of work from the ground up. You take the best 7, 8 or 9 year-olds from a particular year and you create a pathway all the way to the first team. FC Dallas and NY Red Bulls started investing in their academies in the second half of the 00s that started paying off in the second half of the 20teens. In the meantime they may have "produced" some pros but a that means is that they managed to convince some teenager to sign with them rather than take another route. So if CPL started a pathway and invested in academy programs in 2023 they can expect a payoff in the mid 2030s. In the meantime CPL academies may give the odd teenager a home and some will sign pro contracts, which is great, but it's really all about long-term cradle to retirement development. Matt Miazga, Tim Weah, Gio Reyna and Joe Scally weren't really MLS academy products. They chose MLS academies because they were convenient homes. Miazga was the closest joining the Red Bulls at 13 but he had college and European interest.
Effectiveness is one thing, but this is a completely valid. They are giving a LOT more foreign minutes than I expected, to begin with. Like 40% or something. There's also a lot less U23 minutes there than I expected. We can get a bit obsessed with very young players, but early 20s guys can still make pretty big leaps.
Toronto FC is 18 years old and started their 1st season in 2007. Montreal and Vancouver joined 4 and 5 years later Exactly! Hence the criticism - they were unwilling to work and partner with the one's who've been around for decades with proven track record and expertise while building their own academies. They could/should have done both CPL works with the existing academies first, partners with them and will organically develop their own in time. They are aware of what they have and do not have, working with others for a common goal is smart. The 3 MLS clubs have interests that are too divergent than what everyone else wants. That's ok, they can keep working in a bubble, pull their youth teams from the provincial leagues and put them in the USDA system instead, play the bare minimum of Canadians in the Canadian Championship - they are totally free to keep doing their own thing on the side. You can't be surprised when people like Jon Conway in that clip (An American who played and work in MLS) tell you that the 3 MLS clubs should be excluded from the conversation to streamline the pathway to pro.
League 1 British Columbia is expanding into Coquitlam as Evolution FC 📣 Expansion news! 🇨🇦@CMFSC have been awarded with licenses that will enable them to participate as Evolution FC in the League1 BC Men’s and Women’s Divisions in 2025.👉 https://t.co/TqimfaznIz#L1BC #RiseAsOne pic.twitter.com/BrLyH3AGNX— League1 British Columbia (@League1BC) July 23, 2024
Based on your previous comment about Davies not being developed by MLS because he had played with some youth academy then this applies to CPL too, no? It isn't CPL developing players but those amateur local clubs doing it. CPL is just piggybacking off of them and getting credit for something they aren't doing.
If MLS teams, who desperately need to focus on academies based on their stated goals, aren't interested in doing it, why do you think a lower level teams would be? The incentives are completely out of whack.
You keep moving the goalposts when the original topic was "academies". Yes, his Edmonton academy deserve the credit that they are due. CPL not having academies means it would be the same. The club in league 1 would also deserves credit Now, do players who play in a pro league earning top club minutes benefits from it? Absolutely, that's not even a discussion. Somehow, the 3 Canadian based clubs struggle big time at transitioning players from their academies to 1st club - that's not a myth or a conspiracy theory... that's just facts! CPL, to their credit just came to the conclusion that there was no way they'd get better results doing the same than what the 3 clubs have been trying to do for over a decade. It would be stupid costly and they'd get worst results. Working with academies and their senior clubs who already have the staff, longevity, expertise, results, contacts and organized them in a reformed D3 (League 1 Canada) made far more sense from cost perspective with a higher probability of producing more quality players by supporting them. CPL isn't better than MLS or more clever, just humble enough to recognize that they don't have that expertise yet and it was best to partner with them in mutually beneficial relationships - learn from them and down the road build your own academies, the right way.
@CANPRO You're right, Halifax Wanderers needs to play the kid. FYI, Halifax signed him after he left Sheffield United U18 17 years old Tavio Ciccarelli scores the winning goal against the DR, game ends 1-0 Tavio Ciccarelli breaks the deadlock and Canada leads 1-0! 🇨🇦 pic.twitter.com/DFc6FWOhRc— Concacaf (@Concacaf) July 24, 2024
That late goal against Honduras may come back to really bite Canada. I know that's obvious. 1-0 over DR is 3 points, but they did need to run up the score. The group will likely come down to goal difference now, and they're behind after Honduras pasted El Salvador. If they finish 2nd, which I'd say is now the most likely scenario....................they're going to get a much harder do-or-die match for U20WC qualification. Mexico or Panama. If they win the group, they can get Cuba or Haiti or somebody of that ilk. Anyway, the much easier path. At every youth tournament like this, Canada makes it hard for themselves. At the last U20 CONCACAF Championships they gave the US a very tough game in the group (2-2 draw), but lost to Cuba. Finished 2nd in the group and had a much more difficult path to qualification. Let's not even talk about 2018 when they lost to St. Kitts & Nevis. Dominica beat St. Kitts & Nevis for Heaven's sake. Not the Dominican Republic. Dominica. There's always just something at the U17 and U20 level with Canada. If you think you're the big bad boy on the block now...........paste somebody. The US just beat Jamaica 9-0. Paste somebody. Go out against El Salvador in the next game and win 6-0. Sorry, rant over.
Well, that was the worst Jamaica team I've seen at any age group at any level in CONCACAF. They totally capitulated. That's good news for Canada. Jamaica is a mess. But anyway.......... My point was that the American players didn't play down to their level but STOMPED. We tend to do that at youth levels even if we don't with the senior team for some reason. Canada needed to beat the Dominican Republic by more than 1-0. They can't celebrate that like beating the DR with a goal in the 86th minute is some great achievement. STOMP SOMEBODY! They need to go out and behave like bullies against El Salvador now. They have to beat El Salvador by at least 2 more goals than Honduras beats the DR. Let's goooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
The fact they tied Honduras was surprising enough. We still select too many guys from the academies while overlooking those currently playing in the League 1s across the country - those leagues where Larin, Johnston, Buchanan, Bombito, Kone and many other played. It's BS that there are currently 0 that could play for this team. See what I mean? If you look at Honduras and El Salvador - most are with the 1st club already
Our youth players, especially at the u20 level, are fragile. They don't have that steel, that resolve, that fight in them. Cycle after cycle they've proven they are weak. I don't know why, but they are. The positive takeaway so far is that Lopez seems to be an absolute baller. He seems destined for big things if he keeps it up. Is it a coincidence he plays in Mexico rather than Canada? I have no expectations that we will qualify from any u20 tournament so I don't get emotionally invested in the results.